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Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:43 am
by Poker69
Are deposit seekers all scammers? Are some of them legit and trying to cut down on time wasters and no shows?

Either way, isn't there a verifiable payment record somewhere.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:02 am
by YAG
The requests for a deposit 99% of the time are coming from complete mysteries.

Besides, a deposit is in essence a security for the one party's performance. The only thing the client is promising is to show up.

Shouldnt this be flipped around, so *I* would be holding a deposit for *their* performance?

Without a third party escrow agent, how would *either* party recover the deposit for a failure to perform?

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:04 am
by funnyguy8558
I'm pretty sure that most are legit, they are trying to cut down no shows. At the same time they are cutting down bookings as well. Next month there will be two very beautiful ladies touring in my area, both require a deposit. I would really enjoy a visit with either of them but I will not do a deposit. I will not make any kind of payment electronically all my transactions are cash only.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:08 am
by DMLawPro
I have found, in my experiences, that providing deposits or "money" upfront greatly lessens the desire of performance.

Unless I know you, deposits or "money" upfront are forbidden for me.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:34 am
by Publisher
funnyguy8558 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:04 am
I'm pretty sure that most are legit, they are trying to cut down no shows. At the same time they are cutting down bookings as well. Next month there will be two very beautiful ladies touring in my area, both require a deposit. I would really enjoy a visit with either of them but I will not do a deposit. I will not make any kind of payment electronically all my transactions are cash only.
If they are touring, and you're aware in advance, are they mysteries? Are they seeking 100% of the appointment fee up front, sight unseen?

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:46 pm
by DukeOfHazard
YAG wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:02 am
The requests for a deposit 99% of the time are coming from complete mysteries.

Besides, a deposit is in essence a security for the one party's performance. The only thing the client is promising is to show up.

Shouldnt this be flipped around, so *I* would be holding a deposit for *their* performance?

Without a third party escrow agent, how would *either* party recover the deposit for a failure to perform?
I agree Yag

I'll never give a deposit because there are plenty of good ones out there that do not require a deposit. Plus if you deposit in advance and really do have a change of plans it's not like you're getting that money back, which in essence is what they ultimately want. How about a deposit for my time and for the miles I've driven just for a no show or they flake out.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:15 pm
by funnyguy8558
Publisher wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:34 am
funnyguy8558 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:04 am
I'm pretty sure that most are legit, they are trying to cut down no shows. At the same time they are cutting down bookings as well. Next month there will be two very beautiful ladies touring in my area, both require a deposit. I would really enjoy a visit with either of them but I will not do a deposit. I will not make any kind of payment electronically all my transactions are cash only.
If they are touring, and you're aware in advance, are they mysteries? Are they seeking 100% of the appointment fee up front, sight unseen?
According to their websites just a deposit. I text one asking if in anyway the deposit could be in the form of cash, she blocked my number. NEXT!!!

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:20 pm
by Publisher
On online escrow system would be pretty complicated but about the only answer.

I can see several elements necessary. Possibly the most vital in the Land of Puritans is that the records of same being maintained outside of the US, with heavy-duty encryption.

Geotracking of both parties enabled. Confirmation system of arrival at the pre-agreed location. An account maintained by the party wanting the deposit, so if they fail, there is a penalty sent to the party harmed.

So far, in most cases ive seen, the person demanding the deposit has all the earmarks of a scam artist.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:04 pm
by YetAnotherHobbist
Publisher wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:20 pm
On online escrow system would be pretty complicated but about the only answer.

I can see several elements necessary. Possibly the most vital in the Land of Puritans is that the records of same being maintained outside of the US, with heavy-duty encryption.

Geotracking of both parties enabled. Confirmation system of arrival at the pre-agreed location. An account maintained by the party wanting the deposit, so if they fail, there is a penalty sent to the party harmed.

So far, in most cases ive seen, the person demanding the deposit has all the earmarks of a scam artist.
When I first read this topic, I thought the same, then thought, "there's a business opportunity here!" :-). But - it seems to me the trickiest biit here is the confirmation of the meet: it's not hard to spoof the geotracking on Android phones, so there's no way to avoid a "he said/she said" situation. It would probably only work if the two parties trusted each other - at which point there's no need for the escrow....

I can see beginners wanting deposits. to help with the initial costs of a tour. Successful companions probably don't need help recouping those initial costs, so perhaps they would do this just as a way to avoid no-shows? Those with established regulars in the places they tour to can probably just count on them to ensure the tour is not a loss...

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:16 pm
by shyboy69
I see and understand both sides of the coin.

A trusted and known lady won't ask you for a deposit. As Yag as said, it's the mystery. The deposit greater increases the possibility that you will make the appointment. But on the other hand. Where or what is my guarantee if she doesn't meet with me. Will I get a refund? It's not like I can file a complaint with anyone.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:23 pm
by DMLawPro
shyboy69 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:16 pm
......................... But where is my guarantee if she doesn't meet with me. It's not like I can file a complaint with anyone.
yes, you can... File criminal charges for theft...

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:49 pm
by Publisher
YetAnotherHobbist wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:04 pm
Publisher wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:20 pm
On online escrow system would be pretty complicated but about the only answer.

I can see several elements necessary. Possibly the most vital in the Land of Puritans is that the records of same being maintained outside of the US, with heavy-duty encryption.

Geotracking of both parties enabled. Confirmation system of arrival at the pre-agreed location. An account maintained by the party wanting the deposit, so if they fail, there is a penalty sent to the party harmed.

So far, in most cases ive seen, the person demanding the deposit has all the earmarks of a scam artist.
When I first read this topic, I thought the same, then thought, "there's a business opportunity here!" :-). But - it seems to me the trickiest biit here is the confirmation of the meet: it's not hard to spoof the geotracking on Android phones, so there's no way to avoid a "he said/she said" situation. It would probably only work if the two parties trusted each other - at which point there's no need for the escrow....

I can see beginners wanting deposits. to help with the initial costs of a tour. Successful companions probably don't need help recouping those initial costs, so perhaps they would do this just as a way to avoid no-shows? Those with established regulars in the places they tour to can probably just count on them to ensure the tour is not a loss...
Spoofing both of them simultaneously? I havent kept up on GPS tech, but last i knew the satellite tracking puts you within 5 meters of the spot. How good are the ground based locators now? It couldnt be one-way, too easy for one to lie.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:00 pm
by Publisher

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:49 pm
by YetAnotherHobbist
Publisher wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:49 pm
Spoofing both of them simultaneously? I havent kept up on GPS tech, but last i knew the satellite tracking puts you within 5 meters of the spot. How good are the ground based locators now? It couldnt be one-way, too easy for one to lie.
I was thinking more of something like this: https://ww.9to5google.com/2018/04/08/sp ... id-basics/ - basically. on an Android phone, ypu can tell it where you are, and it will report that location to any apps running on it (if I read that right).

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:43 am
by vorlon
DMLawPro wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:23 pm
shyboy69 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:16 pm
......................... But where is my guarantee if she doesn't meet with me. It's not like I can file a complaint with anyone.
yes, you can... File criminal charges for theft...
We'll let you go first and try that tactic out.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:34 am
by Publisher
YetAnotherHobbist wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:49 pm
Publisher wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:49 pm
Spoofing both of them simultaneously? I havent kept up on GPS tech, but last i knew the satellite tracking puts you within 5 meters of the spot. How good are the ground based locators now? It couldnt be one-way, too easy for one to lie.
I was thinking more of something like this: https://ww.9to5google.com/2018/04/08/sp ... id-basics/ - basically. on an Android phone, ypu can tell it where you are, and it will report that location to any apps running on it (if I read that right).
Im thinking a one-time unique identifier.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:40 am
by Poker69
Nobody picked up on this yet. Pretend you're Danno.
Poker69 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:43 am
Either way, isn't there a verifiable payment record somewhere.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:46 pm
by Publisher
Poker69 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:40 am
Nobody picked up on this yet. Pretend you're Danno.
Poker69 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:43 am
Either way, isn't there a verifiable payment record somewhere.
The answer is yes. Recovery is the issue.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:59 pm
by Poker69
Publisher wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:46 pm
Poker69 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:40 am
Nobody picked up on this yet. Pretend you're Danno.
Poker69 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:43 am
Either way, isn't there a verifiable payment record somewhere.
The answer is yes. Recovery is the issue.
Recovery or evidence. Which troubles you more?

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:47 pm
by funnyguy8558
Poker69 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:59 pm
Publisher wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:46 pm
Poker69 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:40 am
Nobody picked up on this yet. Pretend you're Danno.
Poker69 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:43 am
Either way, isn't there a verifiable payment record somewhere.
The answer is yes. Recovery is the issue.
Recovery or evidence. Which troubles you more?
The evidence part is what I have a problem with.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:49 pm
by DMLawPro
Poker69 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:59 pm
Publisher wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:46 pm
Poker69 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:40 am
Nobody picked up on this yet. Pretend you're Danno.
Poker69 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:43 am
Either way, isn't there a verifiable payment record somewhere.
The answer is yes. Recovery is the issue.
Recovery or evidence. Which troubles you more?
Neither... Because both can be achieved....

Re: Deposits

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:11 pm
by Poker69
Silly me. Thinking I wouldn't want evidence of a transaction.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:35 am
by YAG
Giving a deposit to someone who hasn't given up any reason to trust them is insanity.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:26 pm
by Yuna
You guys know that I don't do deposits when I come down to CU or BloNo. But I do understand the argument for them as long as they are reasonable.
When I first started touring IL, I had to take a huge financial risk. Given that driving down 4 hours and having to front a cost of a hotel, it feels like a huge barrier to cross. What if the guys are flakey and I lose money? I'm much safer staying in my territory where I have established clients. Deposits help mitigate that risk. If a hotel costs $100 a night and I take 4 bookings, is it unreasonable to ask for a $25 deposit just so I'd break even in case everyone cancels? Now of course there are scammers and you have to do due diligence to prevent that, but I can see some instances where reasonable deposits make sense. I think if it seems safe and reasonable, deposits can encourage ladies to try out new places and there would be less complaints about the "barren wasteland" of no new talent.
Actually I did work out a deposit recently. I was asked to stop in another city that I don't normally stop at and get a hotel room by someone I've never seen before. I thought, wow, that guy could be trolling me, but he had some things vouching for him so I decided to work it out. So I very politely asked for a deposit equal to about half of the room cost which he found to be reasonable. And it worked out! Not sure if the wonderful gent that I saw,wants to tell his side of the story, but it would make for a different perspective.
The least traceable form of a deposit is a gift card. You can buy them with cash and a lot have custom amounts.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:43 pm
by DMLawPro
Yuna wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:26 pm
.......... Deposits help mitigate that risk. If a hotel costs $100 a night and I take 4 bookings, is it unreasonable to ask for a $25 deposit just so I'd break even in case everyone cancels? ......
Wow, someone who gets it.....

No harm, no foul if either party cancels too.... If the Lady does cancel, she could just credit next visit..... 25 out of pocket is minuscule in the scheme of things. It's the one's that want you to fund their whole trip before they put their pants on and start the car.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:52 pm
by Publisher
DMLawPro wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:43 pm
Yuna wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:26 pm
.......... Deposits help mitigate that risk. If a hotel costs $100 a night and I take 4 bookings, is it unreasonable to ask for a $25 deposit just so I'd break even in case everyone cancels? ......
Wow, someone who gets it.....

No harm, no foul if either party cancels too.... If the Lady does cancel, she could just credit next visit..... 25 out of pocket is minuscule in the scheme of things. It's the one's that want you to fund their whole trip before they put their pants on and start the car.
She got the difference. I bloviated on the difference between mitigation versus avoidance a year ago.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:18 am
by Rtp001
Thanks Yuna I’ve never been called a wonderful gent before!

I had been wanting to meet Yuna for quite some time and the possibility of meeting her on her return trip from CU in a city near me presented itself! Being we are both verified here initial contact was quick and easy. After a few messages and texts we agreed upon a place and time. We both, I think, were a bit anxious as we had never met before. Yuna explained to me her time weighted values and I agreed to the terms. She also offered a discount, with a deposit in the form of an amazon GC for half the room cost. I did not think this to be unreasonable for stopping in a city off her route and only for me. I purchased the gift card easily and with only the cash register receipt as proof of purchase, other than being on camera in the grocery store.
Long story short we met and the stars aligned!

Deposits are not something that I do, but being this a special request and first encounter I believe it was a reasonable approach.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:00 am
by The_Carpenter
Yuna's comment of "reasonable" is the key.
Some of the Texan's that still come to Kansas City were scared to death about the 10 hour drive and the hotel when they first started road trips to KC (before they developed repeat clients here). More than once I fronted a bit (I used to be in Houston a lot), to encourage them to make that drive. I've never been burned.

So getting back to Poker's original questions:
Poker69 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:43 am
Are deposit seekers all scammers? Are some of them legit and trying to cut down on time wasters and no shows?
No and yes. But frankly, simply making sure trip expenses are subsidized just in case.

Last, I will add, it appears to me that traveling gals have a preference for guys that pre-book. Which works quite well for me as my own schedule pretty much only allows pre-books.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:44 am
by Publisher
An unkown entity who wants a 50% deposit is completely flummoxed by what an escrow agent is.

I'm surprised some smart attorney operating out of the Cayman Islands or Switzerland isn't jumping on the opportunity to skim, say 10%, off the top, to create and serve as such an agent.

Hire some tech savvy boys and girls to set up and keep it running.

Re: Deposits

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:55 pm
by Publisher
funnyguy8558 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:04 am
I'm pretty sure that most are legit, they are trying to cut down no shows. At the same time they are cutting down bookings as well. Next month there will be two very beautiful ladies touring in my area, both require a deposit. I would really enjoy a visit with either of them but I will not do a deposit. I will not make any kind of payment electronically all my transactions are cash only.
Im going to argue that 99% are purely a scam.

100% upfront isnt risk mitigation, it is risk avoidance. Get a passbook savings account if you want that sort of return.

IF you can find ANY source for ANYONE flawlessly and seemlessly having returned a deposit by a third party - let us all know.

That the deposit is going to one of the 2 parties, without any legal system for the return of said deposit for a failure to perform, creates huge potential for abuse.